No5 Mk1 “Jungle Carbine”

I have been after a No5 for some time now. I’m not sure if it was  due to its rather usual  shape and profile, or its reputation of being a rifle that lets you know you’ve fired it. The No5 is certainly unique and a break from the traditional  style and shape of the earlier No1′s, the No3 or that of the later No4′s.

The No5  was intended to be lighter in weight, have a reduction in overall lenght,and to be far more compact rifle.  When compared to that of its cousin, the No4, it certainly met that criteria. The No5 was also a rifle well suited to the jungle environment. Its action and ability to work in trying conditions was well documented and the reduction in weight a blessing to the soldier carrying the carbine. The No5 whilst being produced 1945 did see use in WWII, even being issued to paratrooper units.

But it was this attempt to reduce the weight of the rifle that may have inevitably lead to its questionable reliability. This mainly centered around the inability of the rifle to hold its zero. Or the famous “Wandering Zero”.

As a result, the No5 in fact saw the shortest length of service for a British service rifle . This may be in part due to the wandering zero, but may also be attributed  to the  focus on the newer  and prevailing  self-loading rifles and  semi automatic firearms of the time.

A while back I was fortunate enough to stumble onto what was to be my first No5. Whilst a little on the scratched side and missing the odd piece, she still remained very appealing. I emailed the owner whom I knew and  trusted and  simply asked “is it worthwhile a restoration job?”.

“Definitely!” was the reply.

I received a few pictures and the only real issue was the flash hider had been removed. There were a few scratchs around where the forward barrel band had been and the top wood was missing.

So here are a few photos after a day of tinkering with the woods alone.

Very faint but there!

The  numbers on the Mag, Bolt and Receiver all matched, but what really topped it of was that the woodwork did as well.  I noticed this upon closer inspection,  I could tell that there was some  numbering as seen in the left photo that showed something.  I lightly worked on it till I could see a clearer defined set of markings.  This is as far as I will go for now. This is also why you never use sand paper, it’s going to take time for the wood to accept the “magic solution” and to be honest im not going to push my luck any further in fear of lightening  the surrounding woods and just fading it all into the back ground.

As you can see the butt just soaked it up and the resulting colour that has come back is just wonderful. The scratching around the front barrel band will take a bit longer, but that will just be accomplished over time with lighter and lighter solutions.  But again gently gently. Today all I did was clean up the bore a tad and just let the wood accept the oils. The bottom picture shows todays results. With restoration you just need to remember its a slow process but worth it. It may sound odd but its sort of handy to have a couple of projects on the go, that way you don’t rush any one job.

So now I need to source the correct barrel band and flash hider.

Now here’s a trick for new players. Some companies out there have made “conversion” kits for the NO4′s to resemble a No5, these entailed  a new butt, modified top and bottom woods, again normally from excess no4 stocks. But they had to make the flash hider to fit the No4 barrel, which has a  different size muzzle where the hider was attached. So, ALWAYS check and measure the muzzle diameter before ordering and make sure you get the correct flash hider. it’s a long way to sort stuff out when the supplier is half way around the world.

ALSO shop around, No5′s were painted black so don’t rush out and get the flash as new blued hider, it’s going to stick out like the proverbials.

more photos to come……

Update, the old girl is going to spend some time with Rod Woods, and even better still, I have aquired another one……and shes nice :)

2nd Update, My buddy and I went down to the range and got the old girl so hot that oil was coming out of the woods! The barrel so hot you could cook an egg on it! My shoulder was a tad tender, but boy what fun! Huns head at 50m with 10 rounds rapid, a few times…. like iIsaid FUN.

for more info http://www.allaboutenfields.co.nz/no5/

40 Responses to No5 Mk1 “Jungle Carbine”

  1. Ian Sutherland says:

    Hi, great website, nice Enfields. I have a faz No5 which I purchased many years ago. The guy I purchased it from claim it was his paratroopers accurised paratroopers sniper.
    One expert I have spoken to advised that the rifle fits the bill, others say it’s just a No5 with the bayonet lug removed and some work done.
    The lug has been ground off and the action and a section of barrel bedded with titanium putty, a sniper cheek piece was fitted, screw holes still there, and scoped.
    It shoots exceptionally well, it’s a FTR faz 1947, your page is only the second reference to the para’s using these I have ever come across.
    Recently, because the flash hiders with bayonet lug are available, I’ve been thinking of replacing it, I have heard it’s a hell of a job, not sure how they attached them. Now I wonder if the story has any credence and I should fit a cheek piece, and just leave it alone.
    Interested if you or anyone has any further info, and how exactly is the best way to re & re the flashhider, or fab a bayonet lug and tig it on. I do not want to spoil my really well shooting rifle, for the sake of appearance. Any advice welcome, thanks Ian

  2. Mark says:

    Ian, thank you for the kind words regarding the website.

    To be exactly sure of what you have got could you email me some pictures? I am interested in the serial number as a FTR in 47 would have indicated that the rifle was made prior to that date and then back to the factory for its 2nd time? If you flick me serial numbers I can work out production dates.

    Again, I profess to be no expert but here goes my interpretation of what you have described.

    To me what you describe is a sporterised No5. My knowledge of the materials, the methods employed coupled with the accurising techniques of the day lead me to believe that your rifle has been “sporterised or modernised” well after its Factory Through Repair in the Fazakerly factory in 1947. Titanium putty is certainly omitted from any of the stocking up process’s that I’ve ever seen from that period in time! The removal of bayonet lugs, the addition of a cheek pad and a scope , again I would tend to agree with the second person who looked at the rifle. Then there is also the lack of official nomenclature to such a creation!

    There are plenty of examples of post WWII rifles that were tinkered with and sold as something a little more interesting that what they really were. But what you have is still very special, and I do want some more pictures!

    Ian, my advice would be let’s have a look at it and if it’s just a case of retro fitting a flash hider let’s do that! But I temper anything that we may do as I wouldn’t want to ruin an accurate rifle, especially a No5! PLUS it has a history of its own!

    But yes the No 5 was issued to paratroopers as was the sten gun, Brens and No4’s, I will update the site with some images that show the British 1 Airborne in Norway with the No5.

    I hope this helps in some small way. But again send me some pictures.

  3. Ian Sutherland says:

    Hi Mark,
    Firstly you are most welcome, job well done. On the second, no tradional serial # only the electric engraved #, in full it reads No5 MK1 (f)
    1/47 Y9933

    It was the second gun I ever purchased, and so I have owned it for 20+ years, I will shoot some pic’s very soon and upload them. I don’t mind what the gun is, I love it, and wouldn’t part with it. No one can believe it shoots so well, as long as you space the shots and don’t heat up the barrel to much, it’s around the 1″ at a 100yds, no access to more at the present. Thanks for your response.

    Regards Ian

  4. Mark says:

    Ian,

    What a great second rifle to own! It took me a while to get one!

    The serial prefix that you have (Y XXXX) runs from the end of 1946 into the beginning of 1947. Yours looks to be at the end of the Y series, I am unable to tell the month but the follow prefix numbers series are observed for the 1947 production at the Fazakerly factory Y, Z, AA, AB, and AC.

    BSA Shirley used a double prefix starting with ‘B” 1945 BB, BD, BE, BF, BG 1946 BH and BJ 1947 BK

    I dont think your rifle went through an FTR program, have a good look around the other stencilling, can yoy see “FTR” anywhere?

    Hell any Enfield that gets 1 inch at 100 yrds is a keeper! dont mess with it, infact get it out and shoot some more! You could get a repro flash hider, but ensure you get the correct diameter and get a good gunsmith familiar with Enfields to do it….personal experience, dont try it yourself! but in all honesty I would just get the old girl out and have fun!

    Mark

  5. Ian Sutherland says:

    Hi Mark,
    I emailed you some pictures of my two carbines, the jungle MK5 and my LEC 1, did you ever get them or did they just dissappear. Thanks for the recommendations, I think I will do both. Numerich has the repro flash hiders in 0.95 dia.
    Regards Ian

    Regards Ian.

  6. Mark says:

    No Ian the pictures never arrived this end? Just make sure the flash hidr is the correct diameter and not for the No4 “Conversions”!

  7. Mike D says:

    Does anyone know if the no.5 mk1 was ever used as a sniper rifle? I’m about to buy one with all correct numbers, parts, etc., really good looking piece of history. On the left side of the receiver are two holes that appear to be drilled for a side mount scope. They don’t interfere with the electro lettering. I hate to think someone did this to the lady to mount a scope that didn’t belong. Serial number is Z72xx which should be a 1947 rifle from Fazakerley but I haven’t found any info that might indicate that any were drilled for scopes.

  8. Keith Chambery says:

    Hello,
    I just picked up a No5 prefix is X. I haven’t seen X mentioned much and I just want to make sure she is legit. It was suposedly manufacture at Fazakerley in 1946.
    Any confirmation would be appreciated. Thanks.

  9. Mark says:

    No the No5 was never converted for sniper work.

  10. Keith says:

    Hello, I am new to this site and I am really enjoying reading all the information about the Lee Enfield rifles. I have a No4 Mk1 and a No5. I am currently having quite a time finding a Shoulder Pad Cap for my No5. She came with an aftermarket cap and I am trying to get her back to original parts. Any suggestions? Thanks!

  11. Mark says:

    Where abouts are you? I have a few places that depending on where you are I could recommend, but with slight warnings if your ordering from overseas like I do!

  12. Keith says:

    Hello Mark, I am in the USA in Long Island, NY.

  13. M. Kalso says:

    I have a Jungle Carbine but the black finish is gone (except on the barrel) on the metal pieces. They are now silver. Should I or should I not, find a reputable restorer to refinish the rifle ?

  14. Mark says:

    Hey there, its up to you, but the old girl sounds like she has seen some use, to me thats gold! I personally would leave her as is, ive recently seen some re-phosphated and oww my lord NO! Flick us some images and I will show you one that I have that looks well loved and she is staying that way.

  15. Will Hayden says:

    Hi Enfield No 5 lovers here is the link to one for sale in NZ, http://www.trademe.co.nz listing No 488435150

  16. Mark says:

    Well, there you go team!

  17. ken maynard says:

    Hi folks I have a old rifle I thank is a jungle carbine the info on the receiver is as follow ( no5 mk1 rof (f) ftr 12/44 with no serial number could anyone tell me for sure what I have havent had the chance to shoot it yet want to try it on moose but this season will stick with my winchester 30 06 any info would be appreciated please by e-mail thank you ( ken )

  18. Mark says:

    Ken, it sounds as if you do have a No5, Royal Ordinance Factory Fazakerley that went through a “Factory Through Repair” can you take as many images as possible of the bolt the markings, side of the reciever and woods, basically anywhere there is or should be markings and lets see what you have eh! What a moose rifle! Send pictures to admin@allaboutenfields.co.nz and dont worry about size or number of images!

  19. Dave Hayde says:

    Gentlemen this is the most civilized gun web site i have been on. I dont usually join anything but i would like to join this site. How? I have all the modern stuff but lately geen gettin into old war stuff 2 mosins 2 yugo mausers and today i bought a correct mk5 md1 jungle carbine and would like to talk to like minded folks.

  20. Mark says:

    Thank you for the kind words. How to join? well you can register and discuss topics on the forum or you can simply add comments and questions on the individual pages. Well done on the purchases, will have to get some pictures of your collection and post them, always nice to see other examples and collections.

  21. david hayde says:

    Im back about my mk 5 no 1 i love it.

  22. Mel Chung says:

    I am in posession of a “butchered” or “bubbaed up’ Mk1 No.5 Jungle carbine. Tell me about a sad case…i will spare you’all the gruesome details but the burning question in my mind is, what held the flash hider on? There are no grooves on the barrel to accomodate the two cross pins that usually retained the FH The barrel measures 18 3/4 inches long using the BATFE method ( cleaning rod down the barrel stopping on closed bolt) When compared to my hopefully original JC, supposdly an Israeli issue (no broad arrow property marks purchased in the 1970′s from Navy Arms) the barel seems to be long enough to enter the flashhider recess sufficiently. Barrel diameter at muzzle is about .585 for about 1 1/4 inches then gets larger past that. The four lightening cuts on the knox form (chamber) look original and uniform. Barrel markings: a crown over BNP, 2.222 18.5 TONS PER [] The markings on what remains of the receiver left side consists of No5MKlROF(F) 12/45 T4XXX Also ENGLAND and the broad arrow on the left of the butt socket. Sorry to be so long winded – old guys are like that : ) Mahalo, Mel Chung

  23. Mark says:

    Mel, sorry for the delay in replying. It sounds as if the barrel has something odd about her, esp if there are no groves or holes for the pins in the barrel to accommodate the flasher hider. I will get one of mine out later and have a measure up? But by the sounds of it you have already measured against another one you own?? Flick me some photos of the end and lets have a good look. Sounds rather interesting! But you are right there should be two visible holes that allowed the two pins that held the FH in place. Mel, Can you take images of the markings on the knox area for me as well? And dont be shy of bubba’d rifles, here is a great opportunity to get the old girl back to her former glory, which isnt too hard! have an idea about the barrel but need to run it past my Enfield Guru :)

  24. Mel Chung says:

    Mark: sorry no pictures available. the markngs in the knox form area are not clear and consist of seemingly random letters and symbols such as: a D with an arc over it, stacked NN and 66 under a odd Omega like symbol, a mark that with some imaginaton looks like a stylized woodpecker and a couple of other indecipherable marks. All these marks are on the flat on top of the knox form. In the lightening cut at the 2 O’clock position there appears to be a crown over a N ? . Part of a broad arrow mark just ahead of the flat on the knox form.
    Unfortunately the receiver is not salvageable, mainly due to the cutting off of the rear sight axis pin “ears” and the removal of the charges guide “bridge”. A shame since the receiver has the new to me lightening cut at the butt socket beteen holes for the rear trigger guard screw and it also has the lightening cuts to the area below the rear sight.. The ejector screw hole has been buggeed with an oversized sheet metal screw. The gun has been restocked ith a cut down # 4 foreend and a #4 butt stock with non brass buttplate. Did I mention that the electro pencil markings are shallow, faint and irregular – Perhaps an off day for the person doing the marking. Maybe in the past someone took a perectly good JC, kept the action parts, butchered the receiver and restocked or went through an awful lot of time and trouble to duplicate a JC receiver and barrel. These strange and sad things happen sometimes… Mel

  25. David Mann says:

    Great site and info about the MK5. Mine has “Made in England” stenciled on the left side of the butt plate and “England” right down below the safety. Any info on this?
    Thanks

  26. Karl says:

    Great site!! I’m in Long Island NY and nobody has any real info on the rifle I just picked up from a friend. I was helping him out installing a new toilet & vanity for his home that was badly damaged in Super Storm Sandy, when I was about to leave he offered me “A Jungle Rifle” and said I have the stones to rebuild & fire it as its loud & shoulder buster. No idea what he’s talking about so I said sure “I’ll take it”. I can see it was sported at some time in its life and want to bring her back to as issued as possible. I just want to confirm its a real #5 and not a wantabee #4 as I’ve been reading. Pictures inbound.

    Thanks Karl

  27. Keith Chambery says:

    Hello Karl,
    I am on Long Island as well. I bought my 2nd Mk5 earlier this Fall. It has such history and excellent report when fired. The ammo is expensive but you can’t shoot it too often in one visit to the range without paying the price anyway so it will help you save money that way. Good Luck — great story by the way about how you aquired this nice piece of history. There are original parts around on various websites so you should be able to bring this back close to the way it was when issued.
    Best Regards,
    Keith

  28. David Mann says:

    I picked up a MK5 late last year, it is stamped “made in England” at the grip band and stenciled the same on the rt side of the butt plate. Anyone have any ideas as to the markings?

  29. Mark says:

    I will update the page with some information regarding this latter today, hiopefully it will help

  30. Mel Chung says:

    saw a movie entitled “paisan” on the tcm channel on saturday about a bunch of Italian partisans shooting it out with the Nazis. One of the partisans used a Jungle Carbine! movie was from 1946 and was part of an Italian writers short stories. JCs have that distinctive silouette… Mel ps: just got a case of Hornady ,.303 British ammo in, it retails for 43.66 here on Molokai. Gotta reload at that price!

  31. Gerard says:

    mark; I also have a No5mk 1 which is marked on the left receiver No5MK1 ROF (F) 1/46 Serial number U1305. All numbers match wood is good and the only think missing is the bayonet lug.My question is what is the proper sling to finish up bringing it back to full military apperence?

  32. Nick White says:

    Great site! Very insightful. Open question, I can buy a mk5 with a mk4 barrel screwed onto it. Looking into it for hunting purposes so the lack of collectors value is irrelevant to me. With this barrel swap effect shooting it at all?

  33. mel chung says:

    Remember that “butchered” jungle carbine i got a few months ago with the sights removed, the sight mounting “ears” ground off and the stripper clip guide center filed out? Since the receiver was already permanently altered, I did the following: milled a flat on the receiver where the sight ears used to be, made a plug for the rear sight plunger and spring hole, made a set screw to hold it in, drilled and tapped the plug and the receiver for 3 holes, installed a home made sub base onto the receiver, altered a piece of b square base stock to fit the subbase, drilled and tapped the base and the receiver ring, milled slots onto the base after determining where the scope rings would go, installed a used burris 3-9×40 scope on to the base and collimated it. I replaced the severely altered #4 fore end and resined #4 buttstock with an already altered #4 stock and butt i picked up at a gun show for 20$, a CHROME PLATED jungle carbine buttstock pad bracket with aftermarket rubber pad replica. I ordered the reworked hand guard, handguard ring, stamped band and ejector from GPC. No band screws in stock so i will try and use a butt swivel screw instead. I must have put in about 20 to 30 hours of machine time and lots of handwork into this gun, The receiver, bolt, trigger guard and barrel are original. A replica flashhider with bayonet lug won’t fit since the barrel muzzle diameter is about .010 undersize. Already i got someone wanting to trade AR parts for my frankenstrein jcbut I would prefer a complete gun for it such as a rusty M1 Garand used to prop the barn door open with.
    : ) Mel Chung

  34. Mark says:

    come on Mel, pictures my good man! sounds like you have had some fun, with chrome plated parts too :)

  35. mel chung says:

    If you meant to say a Mk1#5 with a Mk1 #4 barrel, if the headspace is OK with gages, then it should be OK. A little out of proportion and muzzle heavy but if you don’t mind it should work well. Suggest maybe a slip on recoil pad since the butt is short and relatively stiff recoil. There are aftermarket scope mounts that bolt on using existing holes. Please don’t drill holes in the receiver. If it were my gun I would get a conversion kit for the barrel and install a repro flashhider, and use the gun with the slip on pad. Have fun! Mel Chung

  36. Mel Chung says:

    Mark: sorry, when my kid comes home soon I may have some pics… Mel

  37. Mark says:

    No worries mate, ive been a little busy at the moment so no rush :)

  38. TheQuotient says:

    Hey Guys, I’m looking for a bayonet for my 45′ Jungle Carbine (first gun by the way, family heirloom). I cant seem to find anything but recreations. Do you know of any sites or dealers that might be a good place to check? Thanks in advance

  39. TheQuotient says:

    What are your thoughts on the remakes? I might pick one up just to have it.

  40. Mark says:

    I personally have no issue in repro’s, sometimes the real thing is either impossible to find or way too pricey, I think one needs to be realistic and if it gets something completed, back in use and enjoyed, then go for it!

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